Dear Rhiannon:
(Psst: New theme here at IP.)
Becky: Now let it be known that I actually liked Rhiannon before all of this happened. Now I’m not so sure about my feelings towards her because I really dislike the way she chose to handle the situation and blow things way, way, way out of proportion.
Sarai: Also, I’m positive we mentioned more than once how much we admired her in the last post, and also were told by many people (both those that like us and those that do not) that we were not unnecessarily mean or critical.
Becky: Yeah coming from people who don’t like us and what we do that’s a pretty big thing.
Sarai: I’d also like to point out, that the theories regarding Nellie and Rhiannon’s involvement in Snark were just educated guesses derived from what Nellie was saying. That’s all we could go on.
Becky: Right, right because guess what? Rhiannon chose to not show her face save for two vague comments on IP.
Sarai: With that said:
I don’t care about this too much but I feel that I need to finally acknowledge this bullshit due to the numerous assumptions being made not only towards me but towards Nellie also, who is a good friend of mine. I have always maintained that I have no problem with receiving criticism (especially as I dish plenty of it out myself) but I do have a problem when a group of people choose to make unwarranted assumptions and twist peoples’ words around so that they’ll look good.
Assumptions? Yes. Bullshit assumptions? No. Like I said, we only had Nellie’s word to go on, because you were not there. We didn’t twist anyone’s words. In fact, we quoted them.
Becky: I have a problem with that too, which is why my opinion of you, Rhiannon, and you, Nellie, has been lowered significantly.
Sarai: It’s a two way street, bbcakes.
I have been labeled a hypocrite by those in “The Circle” because for some reason they think I cannot handle criticism about my own site. You see, there was an article about PSGR featured at Internet Police sometime last week, going on about my colour scheme more than anything else. The fact that I don’t use a CMS (Wordpress, Cutenews etc) was also briefly mentioned, with the reason for this being that, according to Becky from Internet Police:
“…I do believe it’s because she doesn’t want to deal with comments (my memory may be a big foggy).”
“For some reason” = what Nellie was saying, and your absence throughout this whole thing.
Becky: In regards to my comment on you not wanting comments: well that was just something I thought I’d read on your website. I wasn’t sure, I didn’t know, which is why I said my memory may be a bit foggy.
Sarai: The conversation was about the color scheme, because that’s where the problem is, in our opinion. We mentioned the CMS to give you suggestions. Helpful ones.
Becky: Like you mention things to help the people you review. The fact that this is being taken as an attack against you and Nellie is absurd and I can’t believe that you have brought it this far. I also can’t believe that you’re sitting there saying you don’t care when you’re blogging about it and you deleted your account from snark over this.
Sarai: A bit much, I (and others) personally think. Perhaps you’ll get an e-mail hearing their personal views on this whole situation, but I highly doubt it.
Over the last couple of days since the drama started I have never once said that I had a problem with what they wrote about me. In fact, I was the first person who commented on the article…
Right you did, which is why we don’t understand how Nellie freaked the fuck out over it. You sounded reserved and mature, which is what we expected.
Becky: Then Nellie comes in and she’s all freaked, then we get your comment that implied only professional opinions mattered (and professional pplz liked your layout lots and lots). We did expect a lot more out of you because the behavior on your parts seems to mirror the sort of behavior you like to ridicule.
Sarai:
What part of the above gives the impression that I cannot handle criticism? If I couldn’t handle criticism I wouldn’t run a fucking review site. I suppose the fact that I didn’t instantly blog about all of this is seen by some as me being butthurt over the situation, I’m not sure. Perhaps it’s because I don’t actually care that much, since it’s just the internet.
In short: That’s not why we thought you were a hypocrite. It was the whole Nellie episode and you deleting your Snark account. If you didn’t care that much since it’s “just the internet”, then this blog entry of yours was completely unnecessary. Next.
I don’t care that I was criticised. My problem is the fact that two people who were supposed to be my friends said crap about me behind my back. I don’t care too much about Sean’s comment about CMS’s, although I made it perfectly clear in my first comment that I am happy with Haloscan and have no need to use anything else. I have never felt the need to rely on a content management system – updating my site manually isn’t the arduous task it’s being made out to be. If my lack of fear for colour and my lack of CMS results in elitists branding me as “e-scum”, then so be it. I’ve never been an elitist myself and I’ve never been considered a part of this “circle”. As for me not being able to handle comments, this is complete bollocks. Sometimes, when I feel that I’ve actually said something worthy of people commenting on, I’ve allowed comments. Unmoderated comments. If I could not handle comments I would never allow them – not on my blogs, my photography, nothing.
“If my lack of fear for colour and my lack of CMS results in elitists branding me as “e-scum”, then so be it.” Pot, meet kettle.
Becky: See! Your opinions mirror those of Nellie’s! I knew it. Fucking hypocritical pussies. They weren’t talking behind your back and both comments were innocent and sweet. They weren’t harmful, they weren’t mean and if you’re pissed at them then boy howdy you must be super pissed at us.
Sarai: You already explained the comments thing. This whole blog entry is one big twisted piece of bullshit.
Becky: Lack of fear? Lack of common sense if you ask me. Which is why I chose to create a Stylish stylesheet to use on your site (I’m cleaning it up and putting it on my website if anyone is interested).
Sarai: And this whole “Circle” label is complete bullshit as well. Whether in a “circle” or not, people are entitled to their opinion.
Becky: We never branded you as e-scum, not once. We made suggestions in case you wanted them and offered our help up if you were shying away because of lack of knowledge.
Sarai: Again, because we respected you.
Becky: “The Circle” consists of us and people who hate what we do ganging up against you because you’re wrong in this. I’m sure if this was Billy-Joe from another website you’d be in on this whole thing like Amanda on a Pizza Hut pizza. But because it’s you suddenly it’s the crime of the century. What’s that word again? Oh yeah: hypocrite.
Sarai:
Dicle commented saying I should change back to my brown layout because ‘that was much better’. According to her, of course, although she didn’t care to add that. Then she claimed she had sent me an email telling me this herself and came up with a screenshot from the 10th of June, concerning a layout I’d just put up at the time – not this one. I commented with this:
OF COURSE IT’S “ACCORDING TO HER”. Who else would she speak for!? THE ENTIRE INTERNET?! Al Gore?!
Then you go on to talk about some e-mail exchange that has nothing to do with this entire situation, which only proves how misguided you are.
Becky: Let me clear something up for you Rhiannon: you see everything here labeled with. Yeah that’s according to me and also my personal opinion. I hope you can understand that.
Sarai:
“Apart from at IP I haven’t received any bad feedback about the layout at all, although around 50% of visitors stated that they preferred the brown in a poll I conducted last month. I’ve also received good feedback from Bobbi-Lee and Lil who are, unlike us, professional graphic designers. Bobbi-Lee and Lil would not lie to me and I’ve always taken note of their feedback in the past – it has been negative sometimes and that’s why changes are occasionally made – but my current layout has only received positive feedback from these two.”
It was the last sentence of my comment that warranted Becky saying in the “PSGR Followup” article that “Rhiannon’s only real response was that “everyone else said it was nice so nyah”. Yet another misconstrual, ignored by all – of course. So what if a certain group of people heavily dislike every single design I’ve ever come up with? So what if I’m not the greatest with graphics? I’m learning. I knew full well someone would bitch about the bevels and gradients I added to the layout a few weeks ago. So I experimented a little. Sue me. I’m learning as I go along, like everyone else. What looks like utter shit to one person may look the complete opposite to another. Taste is subjective and it’s a pity that some seem to forget this fact. I never said that ‘everyone else said it was nice’. If we all liked the same thing the world would be boring as hell. I do believe though, that my layout isn’t as horrific as they’re making it out to be. I’ve seen (and made!) a lot worse in the past, and that’s why I improved. That’s why I’m constantly improving. I don’t do the whole ‘boring layout thing’ and I never will. I appreciate any criticism handed to me but at the end of the day it’s my site and I’ll have it look the way I want, unless an overwhelming amount of visitors have a problem with that.
Becky: So it’s okay for you to experiment, but if someone, were oh say, experimenting with iframes and happened to turn their content backgrounds lime green in some browsers that’d be wrong? Excuse me, I’ll never criticise you again now that I’ve seen the light.
I’d like to also point out that I am not the greatest at graphics, however, I try to make sure my site doesn’t completely blind visitors when they come to see it. I may not be the best “colour schemer” in the internet, but at least I try. That’s more than I can say for you, Rhiannon. You just go get the opinions of two “professionals” (I don’t know if they actually are professionals :P) and call it a day.
Sarai:
1. No one was talking about “every single design I’ve ever come up with”.
2. No one said anything about you being the greatest at graphics.
3. Experiment all you want. Experiment now with new, better, color schemes?
4. Taste is subjective, yes – Color theory is not.
5. We never made your layout to be “horrific”.
6. “Boring layout thing” – Oh no she didn’t, Becky!
7. “At the end of the day it’s my site” – Oh do us all a favor and shut the fuck up.
Becky: I think you covered it all.
Sarai: Moving on.
If everybody hated my layout 50% would not have voted for it as their favourite, when I was deciding between the current version and the brown. Even now I’m still torn between the two and who knows…you may be seeing the brown again sometime soon. I’m indecisive as hell so really…who knows. Furthermore, if my layout was as ghastly as they say, why would people bother to visit me?
Becky: You gave your visitors a choice between the horrible pink layout and the horrible brown layout. What did you want them to do? Choose the non-existent “good looking layout” option? I’m not sure why you’re even citing that poll because the results are skewed.
Sarai: Current version and the brown version were just as clashing. Your visitors didn’t have much of a choice. It was either “Choose ugly or uglier.” Sorry. People visit because of the CONTENT. Surely you, a website reviewer, would know this.
And I agree with the skewed idea.
Becky: You weren’t giving them any real choice in the matter, so move on to something else.
Sarai:
I expressed these sentiments to Nellie on Saturday, which resulted in her posting a comment on Internet Police as well as on this thread at Snark Forums.
So Nellie WAS standing up for you! Going by what you told her. Now it all makes sense.
Becky: Of course, but we already knew that it was likely that was what Nellie was doing. A formerly intelligent person doesn’t just throw herself into a pathetic, retarded fight like that with the arguments she had for no reason.
Sarai:
I recommend reading the entire thread if you have the time – it’s an interesting read to say the least – and YAY!, it results in me being labelled a hypocrite yet again and it was also suggested by some that I was watching the thread the whole time or that Nellie was speaking on behalf of me. This was on Saturday afternoon, when I was spending time with my boyfriend away from the internet. I do not live my life in front of the computer.
We already discussed why you were (and continue to be) a hypocrite. “I do not live my life in front of the computer.”
I confess, I thought of the “I ACTUALLY HAV A LYF U NOE!” argument commonly used by retards on the web.
Becky: You are a hypocrite you, you, you HYPOCRITE!
Sarai: Nellie spoke on behalf of you, obviously. That’s why she didn’t make sense half of the time. She went off on two innocent comments, talking hysterically about backstabbing and private e-mails and that’s what made everyone go “What the fuck?!”
Becky: Because it seemed like Nellie was Nellie one moment and a completely different person the next (that other person being you, Rhiannon). Next time do your own dirty work, pussy.
Sarai:
The nature of the comments on this thread (and the fact that everyone failed to see her point) resulted in Nellie deleting her membership from this forum. As soon as I found out that she had done this, I did the same. In all honesty I’d been considering doing so for a while – I’ve never been much of a forum-goer and my post count was less than 20. Apart from greeting new members I pretty much never posted so surely that indicates that I was not very interested in being a member? Nellie’s deletion merely served as a reminder for me to do the same, as I had been planning to do for some time. I’m not in “the circle”, I never have been, I never wanted to be. I do like many of the members at Snark, but generally speaking I have little in common with the majority of them. It’s easier for them to believe I deleted my account because of the drama, so that’s fine I guess. It’s also fine that this post will be pulled apart on Snark and possibly Internet Police.
Everyone failed to see her point?! LOL. It didn’t MAKE SENSE. It wasn’t a POINT, it was an incoherent rant, with accusations and assumptions being thrown all over the place. You’re off your rocker.
Deleting an account is just ridiculous. Especially on a forum, where your presence isn’t exactly missed or mandatory. Just DON’T LOG IN if you don’t want to be active! It’s not hard, and it’s not that new of a concept. Logic, meet Rhiannon. It’s been a while.
And of course it’s going to be pulled apart. We’re going to defend ourselves from this bullshit of an entry. And you knew we would.
Becky: If you’re going to sit there and pull shit out of your ass then prepare to be owned. Nellie made absolutely no sense whatsoever and we, as logical individuals, couldn’t understand what the fuck she was going on about half the time. The fact you deleted your account over this without once trying to defend yourself (because you obviously think you’re right and we’re wrong) is just pathetic! And lame! Did I mention pathetic? You sent someone else in to fight for you for reasons yet unknown to the rest of the world. You managed to fuck Nellie up enough that she made no fucking sense whatsoever and then proceeded to whine and cry in your blog post about us.
Sarai:
At the end of the day this is just the internet – I can disconnect anytime I want and forget about all of the assumptions and misunderstandings, the fights over who has the biggest e-penis, and the group of people who suck up to the ‘big names’ in order to gain a false sense of status and/or security in the blogosphere. More importantly, I can forget about the incessant blogs from the handful of malcontents who have a problem with colour and whether or not it has been used in the right way. Does anyone really care?
I don’t know about you, Becky, but when I shut off my computer, I shut off my attitude and personality right along with it.
Becky: If you can disconnect any time then I suggest you do so. I also suggest that you forget about doing any further articles about webmasters behaving badly, unless you’re going to feature yourself.
Yeah me too, Sarai. Off it goes and I’m like a big ol’ lump of mud.
Sarai: If no one cared about color, there wouldn’t be a Principles of Color and Design class on EVERY GRAPHIC DESIGN PROGRAM EVERYWHERE. Color is IMPORTANT, obviously, and you talk about it ALL THE FUCKING TIME in your reviews. It’s one of the first things you look at you hypocritical dipshit.
Becky: Did you ever take into consideration that maybe they’re just experimenting too!? DID YOU? DID YOU? No you did not. Your credibility just went down the drain.
Sarai: You and Nellie can go stand on that little mound of Hypocrisy all you want. As for me and mi casa, we’ll scurry off to Logic Mountain, where it’s nice and cozy. And a little lonely, unfortunately.
We have cookies, though, if anyone wants to join us.
Becky: Right, right. There’s Buffy on TV and NSYNC on the speakers. Let’s go Sarai.
Sarai: Right along with you, bb.
Carole, the big deal was made by Rhiannon. I highly doubt Nellie would have said anything to anyone if Rhiannon didn’t say anything to her. I know Nellie personally and she’s not like that.
I’m glad this post has been made because I think you’re right on. Nellie was being used as Rhiannon’s puppet. I don’t think Nellie knows this, but she might if she reads this.
Alexa · Oct 29, 05:44 PM · · Permalink
You and Nellie can go stand on that little mound of Hypocrisy all you want. As for me and mi casa, we’ll scurry off to Logic Mountain, where it’s nice and cozy. And a little lonely, unfortunately.
Just a question here, did you mean to say me and my house when you said “me and mi casa” or did you mean to say me and my friend which would actually be “me and mi amiga”…lol
Stephanie · Oct 29, 05:54 PM · · Permalink
Nellie doesn’t want to comment because she’s had enough of your pathetic bullshit and your over the top attempts at twisting everything that has been expressed by myself and her.
Alexa, I recommend taking a look at this screenshot :
http://i20.tinypic.com/wtvxar.jpg
You clearly don’t know Nellie as well as you’re making out. It’s also interesting that she doesn’t even know anyone by that name online. Hiding behind an assumed name and generalising isn’t doing you any favours here. Like Nellie, I’ve had enough of this shit. Good on you.
Alexa, now that I know your real identity, I appreciate what you’re doing, but Rhiannon’s right. I had my own reasons for leaving that initial comment, which you’re all well aware of by now and one of those reasons was NOT because Rhiannon asked me to. I did on my own accord and now I just have to accept the backlash… which is why I haven’t really been too respondent over the past two days.
I didn’t intend to start any drama with what I said and I’m really disappointed that it has come to this.
I’m mostly upset that Becky and Sarai have turned on Rhiannon when it wasn’t really her fault. No one would have known that she was upset about the comments if I had just not bothered to stand up for her… which is the very reason why I’ve chosen to never do it again.
Becky, Sarai… I hope you can move on from this and regain the respect you had for Rhiannon, because she honestly did not take your criticism to heart. I have told her much, much worse about her website. I can promise you that.
The only person who should be under fire here is me.
Nellie · Oct 29, 07:07 PM · · Permalink
Rhiannon wouldn’t have had to write that blog entry if it wasn’t for me. That’s my point in this case. If I hadn’t been “retarded” and posted that comment, the last two entries here and Rhiannon’s entry wouldn’t exist. She only started taking the criticism in the way you’re seeing now after I made the comment… probably in defense. I’m not sure.
Alexa is Louise, one of my stalkers. shudders
Nellie · Oct 29, 08:36 PM · · Permalink
I think it’s interesting how Rhiannon never really attacked you two personally, yet your response starts to attack her more and more, and you say SHE’s wrong in this whole situation?
Yes, Rhiannon and Nellie did overact. However, it was Nellie doing all the talking in the Snark forums, so your responses on the forum should have been limited to Nellie only, since you couldn’t really know how Rhiannon reacted – maybe she wasn’t as upset as Nellie made it seem, yet in the forum threads you repeatedly said how disappointed you were in Rhiannon’s reaction.
Nellie deleted her account on Snark, but Rhiannon made it clear in her post that she deleted her account not JUST because of that particular Snark thread.
I think everyone has overreacted to some degree. Nellie (or Rhiannon, if she WAS speaking for her, which she probably wasn’t – she was just trying to defend a friend (when there should have been nothing to defend, as you have said) WAS originally in the wrong, but you two haven’t been completely guiltless in the whole matter.
Apologies if this comment seems like I am attacking you two, and telling you you’re wrong and Rhiannon’s right. That’s not what I’m trying to say.
But please, e-hugs all around? It sucks for people to have a falling out over something so silly.
Again, as I said above, I’m not trying to say you two are in the wrong. Just my two cents.
P.S. I like this design!
Joanne · Oct 30, 12:45 AM · · Permalink
^ Agreed with Joanne.
For the record:
“I don’t know if they actually are professionals :P”
I consider myself a ‘professional in training’ (I’m at university) – I’m more design/concept inclined than I am coding/developing.
Bobbi-Lee is currently employed as a graphic designer, and considering the quality of her work it’s safe to say she’s a professional. Just wanted to clear that up.
If you have any questions the e-mail provided is functional.
I think it’s completely immature to have a falling out over the silliest thing as a layout. A LAYOUT. It’s silly to start a fight with a friend because you don’t think their designing standards are top-notch.
And quite honestly, who gives a flying fuck if she has a CMS or not? Sure, it makes things easier, but it’s her choice to use one or not.
If you ask me, I think Rhiannon’s layout looks perfectly fine.
She doesn’t have to use a CMS if she doesn’t want to. The quality of her site is lessened by the fact that she doesn’t have one (I’d like to be able to use permalinks on her site, sadly she hasn’t decided to incorperate that as of yet), at least in my opinion (in case you were of the same mind as Rhiannon and think that what I write is in the voice of the whole internet).
Not being able to permalink shouldn’t lessen the quality of her site. I mean, sure, it’s not convenient, but it has nothing to do with the quality of a site – I hope you don’t mind if I quote you here – at least in my opinion.
My name exists in the article, that’s why I have an urge to reply even the “case” seems to be closed and I don’t understand why Rhiannon was angry with my comment, because as you stated under Rhiannon’s original response, the color scheme she used in the new layout wasn’t so different from the first one.
I just skimmed the article (hectic days, sorry) and I’m so sorry to see that your friendly article caused a big and bad e-drama.
OMG UI GUISE R SO MEAN WHY DA HELL R U SO MEAN WTF U SHULDNT B LIKE THIS GURLZ okay no jk but for the record rhinanons layout sux ass and everyone knows it DONT DENY
How I was able to read and understand that, I’ll never know.
There’s a little thing called grammar – learn it.
Vicky: OMG UI GUISE R SO MEAN WHY DA HELL R U SO MEAN WTF U SHULDNT B LIKE THIS GURLZ okay no jk but for the record rhinanons layout sux ass and everyone knows it DONT DENY
LMFAO I knoow, her layouts have always sucked shit!
Darren: How I was able to read and understand that, I’ll never know.
There’s a little thing called grammar – learn it.
N dis is 4 u Darren
I like how you two set this all up, so you can freely be a hatin’ on Rhiannon now … And at the same time, no one’s going to say a word against you two, because they don’t want to be the next ‘victim’. Real smooth …
No, really.
I guess this comes from sitting at the computer all day, huh? Lots of time to think out every lil’ detail!
We can freely “hate” on whoever we want to hate.
Right, which is why you went to all the trouble of planning this whole shenanigan.
Last time I checked this is Police.Babblative.Com, not mallorymaloney.com, so feel free to get the fuck out if you don’t like it.
A: I don’t get why you’re mentioning my site and comparing it ((???)) to I.P.
B: I can freely visit whatever websites I want to visit, last time I checked. :D If you don’t want people visiting, don’t put up the site. Simple!
Oh and as for sitting on our asses all day – read the FAQ. Seriously, it’s ttly worth it.
It was worth it when I was linked in there, but now it’s all like … DO NOT WANT. D:
PS: WTF is with this miniscule comment box? I pretty much had to get out a magnifying glass to even find it.
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I don’t think any of this would’ve happened if Nellie didn’t make a big deal out of nothing though.
I’m kind of saddened it has come to this and I am an avid reader of both Rhiannon’s and this site.
Carole · Oct 29, 05:08 PM · · Permalink